Angelique Meddeler

Jeroen: Thanks a lot, Angelique Meddeler, for taking the time to speak to Leaders in Finance in the run-up to the Leaders in Finance Compliance event on the 19^th of September 2024. First of all, could you please introduce yourself?

Angelique: Of course. I have been the Chief Compliance Officer at Rabobank Group for the past two and a half years. Before that, I spent over 25 years at ING, another Dutch bank.  I have a business and operations background, and I now bring that experience to my role in compliance.

Jeroen: Maybe it is hard to summarize, but what do you enjoy most about your current role as Chief Compliance Officer at Rabobank Group?

Angelique: The reason why I was triggered when I was asked whether I was interested, is the breadth and complexity of the role. Compliance touches almost every aspect of the bank and it is very business-, content- and client-driven. I enjoy that almost every hour in my day is different, where every day brings something new, requiring constant attention to content and stakeholders. The ongoing changes within the bank are also exciting, and my business background allows me to leverage my experience with customers, processes, and operations to be an effective partner in compliance.

Jeroen: Great. From a strategic perspective, what would you say are the biggest challenges regarding the role of compliance within the financial services industry?

Angelique: Firstly, I would say the political and geographical tension in the world is a challenge. This tension impacts regulations such as those related to financial crime, anti-money laundering and sanctions, and also on how we assist the bank, its customers and the advisory on how to deal with it. Secondly, the ever-increasing volume of regulations and the breadth of those regulations is challenging. They are not focused anymore on a particular topic, but cover multiple aspects at the same time, take for example AI and data-privacy. You cannot always pinpoint topics to one department, and this horizontal nature of regulations makes it challenging to manage compliance effectively across different departments. Next, beyond regulators, NGOs and other groups and stakeholders now play significant roles in the field. For instance, the Milieu Defensie case involving ING and Shell highlights how these additional stakeholders can influence compliance expectations. Then there are the societal and technological developments that I would like to mention, such as AI and social media, are reshaping customer expectations and compliance strategies. Keeping pace with these developments is crucial for effective compliance management.

Jeroen: Right. It is a great list of challenges which can also be a bit daunting with many aspects to manage.

Angelique: Both internally and externally, managing stakeholders has become increasingly complex. Society and NGOs have become increasingly outspoken and active.  On the other hand, new developments also bring new opportunities, for customers and for the bank. We also want to embrace these, but of course in a controlled and prudent manner.

Jeroen: Right, makes sense. Is there a particular development or issue from the past year related to the topics we discussed that has caught your attention, either due to concern or because it was particularly interesting?

Angelique: There are two developments I would like to mention. First, there is the shifting expectation from regulators regarding the role of compliance. Traditionally, compliance focused on specific risk types like financial crime or data privacy. Now, regulators increasingly expect compliance to ensure that the bank adheres to all rules and regulations comprehensively. This broader perspective could represent a change in the role of compliance. Second, the role of compliance in ESG (Environmental, Social, and Governance) matters has become more prominent. While many ESG-related topics, such as corruption, human rights or data privacy, are already integrated into compliance functions, the challenge lies in approaching these issues from a new angle.

Jeroen: This is indeed a balancing act. For my next question, from a compliance perspective, do you see technological developments more as an opportunity or a risk?

Angelique: The simple answer is that technology presents both opportunities and risks, and this is indeed true. For example, cybersecurity is a significant concern. However, other technologies can also really help us. AI and digitalization, for instance, can streamline processes, making compliance risk management much easier compared to manual methods. Standardizing and automating processes can enhance efficiency and effectiveness in managing compliance risks, while also improving customer protection. AI offers similar potential. While we need to be careful about how AI is used to avoid exposing internal information or policies, it can also be a powerful tool. For instance, using AI to search through our extensive policies can help us better serve our customers and ensure compliance. So there is always two sides to the story but it is essential to approach these technologies with prudence and common sense. Compliance is also actively  addressing ethical considerations, particularly in AI and ESG matters. Ensuring that AI and other technologies are used ethically and with a clear framework is crucial for avoiding subjective decision-making and managing dilemmas. Thus, while technological advancements can be highly beneficial, they must be managed carefully to balance their advantages with potential risks.

Jeroen: Something related to this, is that when I worked at ABN Amro, being in the office helped me get a true sense of what was happening. Now, with technology enabling remote work, it is harder to grasp what is going on when most people are only in the office one day a week. Do you see this as a challenge too?

Angelique: I recognize this challenge, and at the same time, it is the reality of our new world. While some are pushing for a return to the office, I am not sure that’s the best approach. We need to find ways to ensure people stay connected and do not misuse remote work. Technology can help with this, as new forms of fraud emerge, but it is about finding the right tools and checks. Also, fraud is not a new thing, it happens when people come to the office, and also when people work remote. Although it is different, it still happens. Staying connected with people remains a challenge, but I am used to working internationally, so it has always been part of my reality. For example, if I have a call with Australia, I cannot always be there in person. It is about finding a balance between remote work, sustainability concerns like CO2 footprints and maintaining a strong connection with the team.

Jeroen: Right, it is a balancing act. Before we wrap up, what advice would you give starters in the compliance field?

Angelique: What I probably shouldn’t say, but will anyway, is this: Don’t start your career in compliance. Begin in the business side instead—get hands-on experience with customers and processes. Once you’ve done that, then move into compliance. Alternatively, start in compliance and take an assignment in the business. I think it is extremely important to understand how a bank operates and how customers think, because it will make your compliance work much more meaningful and relevant. On the other hand, if you do start in compliance, do not get too fixated on just the rules and regulations. Compliance is about more than just following the law; it is about interpretation, common sense, integrity, and ethical decision-making. While technical expertise is important, always ask yourself, “Is this really what we want to do?” Keeping this broader perspective in mind is crucial for any compliance officer.

Jeroen. Amazing. Thanks for taking the time, Angelique Meddeler, Chief Compliance Officer at Rabobank Group, for taking the time. We are looking forward to have you actively participating at the Leaders in Finance Compliance event.

Angelique: You are very welcome. I am looking forward to it.